HELL CAME UP
I’m sure by now that everyone is aware of the events in Haiti. I was reading The Drudge Report maybe a day after it happened and noticed the headline said “Hell Came Up”. It was in the context of so many thousands of lives being lost and the utter destruction that has come to that country. It reminded me of the verse in Isaiah 5:14a:
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure:”
In the blink of an eye multitudes of people from that country descended into hell and are awaiting a judgment that will condemn them for all eternity. (Not that all were unbelievers but I would assume the mass majority of them were). It made me think of what I wrote in my previous post about the Social Justice Gospel. That is the gospel that is being preached and exported to countries like Haiti, Mexico, Honduras..ect. Because these countries are in close proximity to the US there are countless church groups that visit these countries on their “mission” trips. However most of them fail to preach the gospel but instead are busy building houses, cleaning teeth, bringing in water ect… and in Jesus name. A lot of times the extent of the gospel they share consist of telling people that God/Jesus loves them (but which Jesus? The Catholic Voodoo Jesus?). There’s no clear presentation of the work of God in Christ to save us from our sins and reconcile us to God. Like I said in my article all these works are good things however they do nothing to save the soul. I can only imagine that the multitudes of Haitians that are now in hell awaiting judgment, if given the chance, would rather have had the gospel preached to them instead of having their physical needs met. Again, in light of currently suffering eternal torment and soon to be facing the judgment of God I’m sure now, if they could, they would fore go having temporal needs met if they could simply have the words of Eternal Life preached to them. Look at the story of the rich man and Lazarus in the bible. In it you find the rich man has died and is in hell being tormented by the flames. While in hell he is having a conversation with Abraham.
Luk 16:22 “And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. “
The first thing the rich man asked for was for some water to cool his tongue because he was being TORMENTED in the flames of hell. Just like many of the Haitians are right now. When Abraham said this was not possible, that his fate is fixed, the rich man then said to Abraham:
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
His only concern was that Abraham would send Lazarus to his family to TESTIFY to them so they would not come to the place of torment. I’m sure the Haitians that are now in hell have the same thoughts. They would first want their own suffering and torment eased and then they would want someone to tell their families the GOSPEL TRUTH so they would escape the torments of hell.
This testifying to the TRUTH is exactly what those who promote the Social Justice Gospel most often fail to do. They will gladly help meet the needs of the downtrodden, the poor, the marginalized and fight to improve their condition and status in this world. Yet, for the most part, they fail to give these people the Words of Eternal Life and leave them in a condemned state before God. I can only imagine the number of Haitians that are in hell today who were recipients of “good works” but who failed to receive a faithful testimony about the truth of salvation in Jesus Christ. I’m sure they feel betrayed by so called Christians who failed to tell them the TRUTH that could have saved their soul.
(Also, I do not believe that anyone goes to hell simply because they fail to have the gospel preached to them. All men are guilty of sinning against God and hell (and later the lake of fire) is a just punishment set forth by God. As the scriptures say… all men are without excuse.)
Sean Scott's Blog 
I agree with you. I saw many Christians from abroad who came here with games and fun and their Gospel was just ‘Jesus loves you’. It was so shallow. And when they returned home from their mission trip, people which they tried to evangelize went away also.
Natasa
January 19, 2010 at 8:38 am
It was interesting when I was in Mexico. There where Christian groups who would come down and build houses for people. You could see the houses everywhere. But who was making the disciples? The Jehovah’s Witness. They would go door to door teaching and preaching their doctrine. So the Christians would do the “good works” and provided for people’s physical needs and the Jehovah’s Witness would come and scoup people up into their cult.
Sean
January 19, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Thanks brother. After reading that i read Luke 16 about the rich man and Lazarus, and it’s amazing to me as it has to be a testimony of Jesus Deity and life before His incarnation, for otherwise He could not have been privy to a conversation in hell and paradise. We know our LORD didn’t make up fictitious stories. I wonder if anyone thought, How does Jesus know this? Did He ever meet Abraham?
So, when we realize that the story is a true one, and the rich man really was in torment in flames and was desperately thirsty, then it’s a very serious message indeed, eh. What a crime to not warn people and show them the way of salvation in Jesus.
ian vincent
January 19, 2010 at 9:19 am
Reading brother Ian’s comment, it brought to mind John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” The man in hell was thirsty because he did not receive the living waters of Christ. Instead he chose sin. Yes there is still a hell, but I think Christ was pointing to a contrast between Himself in John 4:14 and the rich man. I pray the Living Lord Jesus sends his workers out to preach true Gospel, not just in the materially poor countries, but the spiritually poor countries like the United States. The land is parched and dry in Spirit. God Bless.
Al
January 19, 2010 at 6:19 pm
AMEN!
Godlysoldier
January 21, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Amen brother,
These missions trips also come back home to their home church with a great big fake salvation score board , sometimes in the hundreds. But we know all the they had the hatains to do was bow their heads and probably repeat some prayer after the missionary. No repentance preached, and no turning from your voodoo preached. Good message.
Jason
January 20, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Scott: why would you assume that the majority of those who died were unbelievers? What is your assumption based upon? You have been watching too much
tv in which you see Haitian Voodoo as being the dominant religion of the country.
Take off your tv inspired vision and get to the facts.
Since you do not know who died and their testimony,your position is fatally flawed.
Jason, another responder on this blog said the same nonsense when he assumed that all the missionaries did was have the Haitians bow their heads and say and a prayer and that was phony!
How does Jason know what transaction occurred during that prayer? He does not. He, like you, is make gross
assumptions about someone’s eternity destiny.
No one knows, including you and Jason, what happened when the Holy Spirit had a chance to apply a gospel message to the hearts of anyone who received the gospel message. So, to speculate that all of these Haitians are in Hell is both ludicrous and judgmental
since you or Jason were not there to hear their testimony or confession or know that transpired in their hearts.
Lafe
January 20, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Hi Lafe,
“You have been watching too much
tv in which you see Haitian Voodoo as being the dominant religion of the country.
Take off your tv inspired vision and get to the facts.”
Actually I don’t watch TV. As you asked me “what is your assumption based on?
“Scott: why would you assume that the majority of those who died were unbelievers? What is your assumption based upon?”
I assume the majority of those who died were unbelievers because 1) I believe the words of the Lord Jesus. 2)My experience has only verified the the words of Jesus are true.
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and [u]few there be that find it.[/u]” (Matt 7:13,14)
1) If Jesus tells me one thing what reason would I have to believe another? If I spent my time watching and believing Christian TV and listening to the so called mass crusade Evangelist I might think that everyone that attends their meeting is indeed saved. However, if rather choose to listen and believe the Lord Jesus I’ll understand that the gate is strait and the way in narrow/difficult and few people actually find it.
2) I’ve traveled to numerous countries and lived in two countries outside of the US (Mexico & India). I’ve seen the multitude of false converts that fill the churches – despite what all the glowing missionary letters say. But it’s no different that the church in the US. It’s filled with just as many false converts.
Again, I’ll stand on the Word of God and the visible testimony that confirms what the Lord Jesus has said.
“So, to speculate that all of these Haitians are in Hell is both ludicrous and judgmental
since you or Jason were not there to hear their testimony or confession or know that transpired in their hearts.”
I don’t speculate that all the Haitians who died are in hell. Just the majority of them (as would be the case in the destruction of almost any major city). A confession WITHOUT a change life is a worthless confession. It’s also a false gospel to say that one can believe in Jesus, in their heart, and not have a change life that bears fruit to that testimony. That’s a false gospel that American churches/missionaries have exported all over the world. American Missionaries/Ministries/Churches have done a great deal of work to make the “gate” bigger and the “road” wider so that it’s not as difficult as Jesus said it was.
Sean
January 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm
I too agree with you, Lafe. For we as true Belivers can not say what God did in those people time of trouble. Not only that, we don’t have a Heaven nor Hell to put anyone in.
daddylee1
May 7, 2011 at 9:00 pm
I could agree with Lafe too if it wasn’t for the words of Jesus and the testimony of scripture. Jesus Himself said that few would be saved. He was either right or wrong.
Mat 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Here Jesus pronounces “woe’s” on these cities that He did mighty works and miracles in. These cities in which the Son of God physically walked and taught in did not repent. What more could have been done for them? They did not repent and Jesus spoke of their judgment. Yet somehow, all the Hatian’s who died in the earth quake are mysteriously with God. The truth is in any city that you have a disaster that kills thousands upon thousands you are going to have multitudes of people who go to hell. Not because “we are putting them there” but because Jesus says few will be saved.
So…Lafe or Jesus. I’ll take Jesus.
Sean Scott
May 10, 2011 at 12:24 am
It is with a heavy heart and personal sadness that I have just finished this writing. It is heavy and sad because so many probably did go to hell and as you said in a response another comment, it would be the same in any major concentration of population anywhere in the world. There is just too much “pop” culture christianity and not nearly enough preaching the kigdom that is at hand and requiring repentance. As a youth minister I am too aware of this reality.
I am also saddened because as I read this and other avenues of information I was not over whelmed with concern or compassion. I fear that I have been religious so long that I am no longer connected to the heart of the Lord but only teachings about Him.
Thank you for this important and standard bearing piece. While extemely painful and convicting in so many ways, an excellent rmeinder of who we are called to be and what we are called to preach. Thank you.
virgil feinsod
January 20, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Sean,
The scripture you used I believe in Isaiah 5 “hell hath enlarged herself”; is about the vineyard of the Lord, God’s people. The correct message here should be the sad state of God’s vineyard, the cause of hell enlarging it’s self. Pontificating about how sad it is that so many Haitians must be in hell is the wrong message; instead we should be sad and mournful of the state of God’s vineyard which is the major contributing factor.
Robert
Robert Begnaud
January 21, 2010 at 12:12 pm
HI Robert,
I wasn’t potificating about how sad it was that so many Haitians were in Hell (though anyone with a heart would be grieved). I realize the context of the scripture in Isaiah is in reference to God’s people perishing . I also realize the sad condition of much of the visible church today. My emphesis on the article was on the failure of so called believers to preach the gospel. (Maybe try reading my previous article which I reference in the post). Instead many today are preaching social justice. Hell enlarges itself not just because unbelievers die but because of the failure of a compromised church to live, walk, and preach as they should. When the so called people of God perish because of compromise the lost around them perish as well. When the people of God walk in truth and preach the truth God saves the lost and adds to the church.
IN Christ,
Sean
Sean Scott
January 21, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Yeah Sean maybe “pontificate” was a little bit of a dig on my part, sorry. I do think it would be a good idea for me to clarify my concerns here. First let me preface with the fact that I don’t know your heart nor have I any personal witness as to your approach on preaching or witnessing about Christ to the lost. You said “though anyone with a heart would be grieved”, in regards to the situation in Haiti? I don’t agree with that statement, let me explain why. It is true that anyone with a human heart, with all of it’s flaws would be grieved at any human suffering or at least they would want to be seen as grieving, whether they really are or not; to me that is simply put, humanism; people caring in their own way for people outside of Christ. Should you hear that the neighbor’s wife died who you met once, you may wag your head and pretend to be grieving, but when your wife dies we can certainly know for sure that now you really, really mean it! You ARE in grief and agony over your loss, I hope anyway! When Jesus walked on this earth he sometimes demonstrated indifference to suffering and sometimes he demonstrated compassion. When the man came to him and told him that his brother had stolen his inheritance, Jesus said “who made me a judge over you!” and of course we all know that Jesus wept over the unbelief and sorrow surrounding the death of Lazarus; Jesus said “I always do the works of my Father”. Today we make the mistake of viewing preaching to the lost as a command, (the great commission) this is false teaching, as the scriptures declare “how shall they preach except they be sent and how shall they hear without a preacher”. The “Work of Christ” is NOT to preach the “good news”, rather the scriptures declare that “This is the work of God that you BELIEVE on him who God has sent, Jesus”. Paul was driven by the Spirit of God in him to preach, he said “woe unto me if I do not preach!”
Now while we all go back and forth about HOW to preach; “how much should I talk about hell and how much should I talk about love, should I yell at them and get angry or should I talk with a voice of compassion?” If you are a Calvinist you might say, “God so loved only the elect that he died for only the elect and if you are now regenerated by my speech, you should then believe my speech!” Why doesn’t it seem to occur to anyone that being a Christian is about Christ LIVING in YOU? That which makes up a LIFE has an opinion, has works, speaks a certain way, has various senses (hate, love, anger, mercy, compassion). Sean, if you believe that you should run up and down the streets of Haiti and loudly remind them all of the souls that are most likely now in hell, I will be sitting back and looking for the fruit of your actions, but when I preach, I must be in Christ and not speaking according to my own understanding, but speaking by faith in Christ the things that only the Spirit of God knows. The gospel to the rich man was “go and sell all that you have and follow Christ”, but that was not the gospel to the poor “come you who are heavy laden and I will give you rest for your souls”. Point being, we must LIVE in Christ and have our being, if we do this then that life will manifest it’s self by it’s works! As I previously said, my concern is not for the so called “visible church”, which to me is a harlot, but for you all, if you belong to him, or might I say, if you consider me a brother, then I should say, my concerns is for US the Vineyard of the Lord. I hope you are getting me here, but that is what I believe.
Robert
Robert Begnaud
January 22, 2010 at 3:19 pm
HI Robert,
I hear what you are saying. I do not think I or anyone should run down the streets of Haiti reminding everyone that many people went to hell. The simple point of my post was to point out the “gospelLESS” activities of those who preach Social Justice which reduces so called believers to nothing more than humanitarian workers. I realize there are other side issue topics we could go down but that would be for another post.
IN Christ,
Sean
Sean Scott
January 22, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Robert said.. “but when I preach, I must be in Christ and not speaking according to my own understanding, but speaking by faith in Christ the things that only the Spirit of God knows”
Brother, I appreciate what I have read on your website about the harlot bride, but let me say that you are preaching on this blog, and well, it has laregly been fleshy assumptions and false suppositions. Perhaps its time to stop speculating about how Sean preaches and take the beam out of your eye instead. I say that in truth and in love, I dont even know you, you seem like a brother who loves the Lord, I hope my words are life and a blessing to you.
BTW- I was really blessed by some of what I read on your site about the harlot bride and plan to go back and read more in depth.
Peace in Christ – Jim
Jim
January 22, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Thank you Jim,
I did try to make it clear that I was not judging Sean, I don’t know him, I guess not clear enough. I hope you will read “The Liar’s Club” as well.
God Bless
Robert
Robert Begnaud
January 22, 2010 at 5:30 pm
I’ll be sure to check it out. I am not trying to judge you either, I just know the tendencies of my own flesh and recognize it coming through other brethren (probably better then I do in myself as things go). I will check out your other article also.
Jim
January 22, 2010 at 5:53 pm
your article is only half right but much worse it shows no compassion at all!!
Yes we are to preach the Clear Gospel of Christ to all unbelievers no matter if they are rich or poor.
But we are also supposed to have a compassion and desire to help those who are in extreme poverty.
do not forget what Jesus said in Revelation 2:1-7:
To the church in Ephesus
To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Yes by all means we are to hold to the True Gospel and preach it BUT if we come to a point where we lose compassion in preaching that Gospel then we are just as bad as those who preach a “social gospel”
john
January 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm
John,
I’m in no way saying we should not have compassion on those who are poor or who were devestated by this earthquake. However, my compassion towards people does not just extened to meeting their physical needs..it goes deeper to their spiritual needs..which in light of eternity is much greater. I personally would rather be used of the Lord to lead one person to Christ and eternal life than give a thousand people a cup of water on their way to Hell without having preached the gospel to them. That’s what the Social Gospel does. It’s a false or misguided compassion because there is no gospel. But hear me though, I don’t think it has to be an either or. We can certainly be moved with compassion to help with peoples physical needs in the context of a faithful Gospel witness.
Sean Scott
January 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm
One of the first things I did after believing in Jesus was to go and tell everyone I knew about eternal life in Christ! I couldn’t wait to share the love
and grace of God with everyone I met…. I was moved by love and compassion. As a brand new convert I used to take my lunch breaks from work and go to stores and places where people are just to tell them about the Lord Jesus Christ. It was a joy I couldn’t contain. Many today though lose their love for Christ and the work He has done in them. They are content with doing good works apart from a gospel witness. They have lost their first love. Our first love is our simple faith and intimacy with the Lord. This first love naturally produces a compassion towards others to tell them the truth that they may receive what we have received from the Lord.
I do understand what you mean though about people preaching without compassion. Either extreme can be wrong.
Sean Scott
January 21, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Most of the un/falsely converted hatians now stand condemned, and hell is surely their portion. Yet wont these poor souls rise up in the judgment against the “christian” humanitarian organizations that gave them a shot in the arm so their trip to damnation was more comfortable… and all in the name of Jesus. In this way I think Seans comments are right on.
-Jim
Jim
January 21, 2010 at 5:30 pm
You hit the nail on the head.
Sean Scott
January 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Scott: you did not answer my question: What factual data do you have to support your reckless conclusion that the majority of those who died during the Haitian
earthquake went to hell?
Did you interview them before they died? Did you get their personal testimony of their faith or lack thereof in Jesus Christ?
You make a blanket, naked and unsupported statement about the eternal destiny of thousands of persons and you have NO PROOF TO BACK UP SUCH GIBBERISH.
You simply insert your own bias into the situation and
think that, that makes it true!
You do not have an iota of personal truth to state that they all went to hell.
Quit playing God with your anglo viewpoint of Haiti.
As long as you want to play God with people’s eternal
destiny, I suppose that you have opinions on the people who have died in the recent floodings in Los
Angeles? I suppose they too are all hell bound?
Why not? The same with the victims of the tsunami floods in Indonesia. All hell bound…according to the gospel of Scott?
Lafe
January 21, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Again, for the second time, I did not say they all went to Hell. I quite sure believers died as well. And again, I base my information on the words of the Lord Jesus. If you’d like to dispute the words of the Lord Jesus you are free to do so.
Everyone who didn’t have saving faith in Jesus Christ went to Hell. I’m not up to date on multitudes of people that died in a Los Angels flooding. What about the tsunami in Indonesia? Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Common sense says the majority of people who died there were Muslims. Every Muslim who perished is in hell awaiting judgment. Jesus said “No man comes to the father but by me”… and He meant it.
Also Lafe, I see a lot of emotion in your post and no response to the word of God. If you’d like to discuss what Jesus said then we can do so. If not, then I’m not really interesting in continuing our dialog. Emotions are deceiving but God’s Word is eternally true.
Sean Scott
January 21, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Lafe,
If it’s “factual data”, as you put it, that is required then please present the “factual data” for your case, which is, i assume, that the majority went to heaven, and you have the “factual data” to prove it. Or, are you holding Sean to a ‘standard’ of which you have no intention of keeping, yourself?
Please clarify whether you believe that Jesus sends people to hell, and how you know whether people are saved or not.
Eph 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
ian vincent
January 21, 2010 at 11:12 pm
Scott, I loved this (below):
“They are content with doing good works apart from a gospel witness. They have lost their first love. Our first love is our simple faith and intimacy with the Lord. This first love naturally produces a compassion towards others to tell them the truth that they may receive what we have received from the Lord.”
I believe it is an active, continual sharing of the gospel that helps keep our first love alive (as obedience lends itself to fruitfulness and blessing).
__________________________________________________
Scott, let those who judge you, do so by knowing your life and heart.
I think these blogs are a little bit like virtual homes: we can invite the public in, but they should accord the host the same respect that they would wish to receive.
Comments like this (“Emotions are deceiving but God’s Word is eternally true”) and this (“Please clarify whether you believe that Jesus sends people to hell, and how you know whether people are saved or not”) are an expression of grace, for they invite knowledge of the Word of God and agreement in His Person.
Go Jesus!
___________________________________________________
In the beginning, God revealed Himself to man through the act of creation (John 1:1), and He continues to do so through natural events.
It is not one portion of God’s character or nature that is revealed through such events, but many.
Mark and Vicki Finger
January 22, 2010 at 3:39 am
If there’s one thing which stays with me when i think of the horror and the suffering of the Haiti earthquake, it’s overwhelming THANKFULNESS that God had mercy on me, a sinner. That should be me squashed under tons of concrete, and then gone to hell forever. That should be me. But Jesus intervened and saved me.
That’s what sticks with me.
ian vincent
January 22, 2010 at 12:41 pm
I’ve been to Haiti. From a spiritual standpoint, it’s really no different than here in the States. Here, our spiritual poverty, idolatry, and witchcraft are just dressed ornately and given deceptive disguises.
We look at a nation like Haiti and shake our heads that they’ve openly and repeatedly dedicated their nation to the demonic control of voodoo spirits while we mistakenly rest on the laurels of our forefathers who founded a nation and called on the name of the Lord. Neither nation is righteous.
There are indeed true believers in Haiti, but the word of the Lord is clear that, just like everywhere else, they are few. Unless we wish to call Christ a liar, we must honestly apply His words. It is not rocket science to understand that if only a few find the narrow path, then the mathematical conclusion that even a child could come to is that a majority will perish on the broad road.
I don’t see how such conclusions can be painted as reckless and biased gibberish unless we place a very low value on the words of Christ. I guess my question to Lafe would be, do you have anything more “factual” than Christ’s own words?
Brian
January 22, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Very true brother.
.
Sean Scott
January 22, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Amen Ian. Sean, thank you for having courage to speak the truth in love. Please continue in the name of Jesus. This article has challenged me on many fronts — I’m encouraged to return to my first love. Jesus said in Matthew 4:17b, Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. I’ve wondered for a long time why the body of Christ keeps offering unbelievers “the sinners prayer”, when we cannot find such a thing in the word of God. True repentance takes place in the heart and mind of the sinner, not emotion.
Thank you for correcting this “spirit of error” 1 John 4:6, with the spirit of truth.
You are impacting lives to the glory of the Father, God bless you!
Rochelle Ferguson
January 22, 2010 at 2:46 pm
To Ian and the other gods on this site:
Ian and Scott unless you have concrete data about the individuals (not generalizations) who died in Haiti and presumed that they went to hell, please stop this
non Biblical gibberish.
Neither one of you are giving any credible or reliable data that supports your nonsensical position.
The mere quoting of Bible verses does not substitute for fact that some/many/all of the earthquake victims were sinners.
You know nothing of their personal testimonies. Nothing…but yet you want to pontificate on their eternal destiny.
How big of you! If there ever was a time to use that
oft maligned verse of Judge not……this is that time.
The verses you quoted does not mean that they were sinnners! You make that jump from earthquake victims to sinners to hell simply because they were Haitians and were killed in an earthquake.
That is akin to saying that some family who dies in
a fire went to hell. Why? Because who dies in a fire unless you are a sinner!
Same defective logic.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Lafe, are you a born again believer of Jesus Christ?
Rochelle Ferguson
January 22, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Hi Lafe,
I still see you are unable to respond with the word of God. Why is that? Do you have something against God’s word? Do you not think God’s Word is factual data? Everyone else seems to be able to discuss topics is reasonable way looking to the word of God to be their standard. You still seem to ignore God’s word and share your emotional opinion without any solid foundation to stand on (God’s Word). I hope you don’t live the rest of your life that way. It’s a dangerous place to be.
Those are your words not mine. I never said people were in hell because they were Haitians. If fact I said if destruction came to any major city multitudes of people would go to hell. Whether that be here in the US or anywhere. The words of Jesus are true despite your effort to prove them otherwise. Thus the need to be faithful servants of the Lord Jesus and NOT hold back the Words of Eternal Life.
Are you going to answer anyone questions that have been asked of you or keep on dodging them? If you’re going to just keep regurgitating the same post, dodging people’s questions, and refuse to look at the word of God I’ll probably just delete your future post or block them. It’s really a waste of time other than them serving as an example to others of what’s it like when you ignore the word of God and listen to unchecked emotions.
Sean Scott
January 22, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Miss Finger: With all respects, your statement was
mumbo-jumbo. Could you please use plain English to state what your intent was?
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with Scott that Scott has the unique ability to place people in Hell due to they being in a devastating earthquake.
If so, that is akin to all of the people who were killed on 9/11 were also sent to Hell!
Same defective logic.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Lafe, have you repented from your sins and surrended to the Lord Jesus Christ?
Rochelle Ferguson
January 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Now, we have the pious Vincent exclaiming that it should have been him under that concrete in Haiti and thus going to Hell.
Again, the same defective assumption that all of those who died under the crushed buildings went to Hell.
Vincent has an acute affinity to place Haitians in Hell. Very odd posture.
According to Vincent’s thinking, if you are in Haiti, you are hell bound.
Good ol’ judgmental Vincent. He will send you to Hell in a moment’s notice.
So…for all of you drowning victims, or victim of plane crashes or soldiers who are dying in wars…Guess what? YOU ARE ALL GOING TO HELL!!
Why? No particular reason. It is just that it seems a place you should go to since Vincent can not reason why you were caught up in such a predictament, it must mean that you were a sinner.
After all, saints do not get caught up in natural disasters and other things of God.
The rain falls on the just and the unjust? Not in Vincents and Scott’s view of God.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Lafe,
I still did not get an answer to my question. Are you a born again believer of Jesus Christ, who has repented from your sins and surrended to the Lord Jesus Christ?
May you humble yourself and study the word of God so that you can “rightly divide the word of truth”, if indeed you are a part of the body of Christ.
2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
We are instructed in the word of God not to strive. 2 Timothy 2:24,25 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Lafe, fianlly my prayer for you, 2 Timothy 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
The love and doing of the truth sets us free, eternally!
Rochelle Ferguson
January 22, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Now Scottie wants to clean up his Biblical debris by now stating that he meant to say that his decision of who goes to hell and who does not applies to any nation or people.
Too bad Scott did not say that in his initial diatribe since he specifically spelled out the Haitian for his hell wrath and not knowing anything about those people who died. Did some go to hell?
Probably but I, unlike Scott, am not writing off the majority of them being hell bound simply because they are Haitians. That is what Scott did and now he wants to revisit his remarks and be more inclusive of his judgmental wrath.
Gee…thanks Scott! I can tell that you are one of the “wrath boys” who assigns people to hell based upon their culture or country or origin.
Tell you what Scott…why don’t you go to Haiti now and preach your FIRST stated remarks to the crowds and see their response.
Nice to do it from the safety of the armchair in the USA.
Go to Haiti and tell everyone that all of those who died (your statement…not mine) went to Hell.
No if’s and’s or but’s.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Lafe-
You truly speak from the flesh and from a spirit of error. May God bring your hard heart to repentance and a love for the truth.
-Jim
Jim
January 22, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Jim
With all respects, you would not know a hard heart and a spirit of error if it stepped on your foot.
Again, you are making glaring assumptions that what I said comes from error or a hard heart.
What a crock! You assume that was Scott said was true and from a love of the truth when the blithely condemned thousands of dead Haitians to hell. That is OK with you and that supposedly comes from a soft heart and a love for the truth?
Egads! Give me a break with your gibberish.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Dear Jim:
Sorry you read it that way. My comments still stand:
Quit assigning Haitians to Hell due to they being caught up in a natural disaster.
You or Scott do not know an iota about their lives or their personal testimonies for or against Jesus…so quit trying to play god and calm your conscience as to what happened and why it happened. It happened!
Jesus is Lord before, during and after the quake.
He does not need your help or Sean’s to figure out who is who and who goes where.
If that is speaking from the flesh…I am all flesh.
Lafe
January 22, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Lafe said: “You have been watching too much tv”
Jim says: Sean doesn’t watch tv and the Holy Spirit knows that so you started in the flesh
“Quit playing God with your anglo viewpoint of Haiti.”
Jim says: A very interesting comment
Lafe “To Ian and the other gods on this site:”
Jim says: That is unloving and unmerciful at best and borderline blasphemy at worse
Lafe said: “You make that jump from earthquake victims to sinners to hell simply because they were Haitians and were killed in an earthquake.”
Jim says: Another very interesting comment / false conclusion
Lafe said: “Now, we have the pious Vincent exclaiming …”
Jim says: Pure venom from hell
Lafe said: “According to Vincent’s thinking, if you are in Haiti, you are hell bound.”
Jim says: Laffy may be experieincing some ethno / racial issues here
Lafe said: “Now Scottie wants to clean up his Biblical debris by now stating that he meant to say..”
Jim says: Your true heart of anger, hatred, and error is showing Lafe
Lafe said: “Did some go to hell? Probably”
Jim says: (Quoting Jesus) Straight is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and FEW there be that find it
Lafe said: “That is what Scott did and now he wants to revisit his remarks..”
Jim says: I think Scott wanted to be gentle and firm while dealing with your error and that just makes you more irate showing the spirit you are operating under
Lafe said: “Sorry you read it that way”
Jim says:
It is not how I read it but how you wrote it. It is all stored up for the day of judgment friend. You are recklessly in the flesh and casting unrightouss judgments on this thread. The very thing you are so outraged at others for supposedly doing. Lafe, did you hear about all of those haitians that died when those buildings collapsed? Unless you repent you will also likewise perish (and burn in hell with the majority of haitians who died in the earthquake).
Jim
January 22, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Finally, a word of truth.
Anyway, any future comment will be deleted.
IN Christ,
Sean
Sean Scott
January 22, 2010 at 7:01 pm
For the record..I marked Lafe’s comments as spam so they will not show up. Here’s his last post to me.
For those who missed my comment in my original post it’s right here:
Personally, I’ve lived in two countries outside of the US (Mexico, India) and ministered in probably about 15 countries. I’ve yet to visit any major city where the majority of people are disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Any place where there is mass destruction and death there will be multitudes of people who perish in their sin and go to hell. That why it’s a shame that many today are promoting social justice instead of faithfully preaching the word of God. When many of the disciples were forsaking Jesus because His words seemed too hard..Jesus asked the twelve if they would leave also. Notice Peter did not say “Lord, to whom shall we go, you have the works that bring Social Justice”. No Peter said:
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the
words of eternal life
Sean Scott
January 22, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Here’s an illustration of the dynamic at work on this thread:
What if you have 100 men and women of God, who are filled with the Spirit and Truth, gathering together, and then one man comes in railing and accusing falsely, and speaking hatefully?
This one man’s sin appears for what it is: The light shows up the darkness and the light is never moved by the darkness.
ian vincent
January 23, 2010 at 2:24 am
And this fact demonstrates the multi-faceted wisdom of God in Him having relational churches, deep and real relationships, for the enemy can’t assail and succeed against such love.
ian vincent
January 23, 2010 at 2:48 am
Which is why the enemy’s MAIN focus is keep a local expression of the church from shining as a Lampstand, from being one, from having a real testimony in the midst of the darkness. Which is why we MUST be committed to the assembling of ourselves together in Jesus name, and not forsake it, not give up bcos of the great falling away, not retreat into a private christianity.
ian vincent
January 23, 2010 at 4:46 am
Amen brother.
Sean
January 24, 2010 at 12:22 am
Lord Jesus, thank you for commending your love to me while I was yet a sinner.
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,” (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
(Praying)
Mark and Vicki Finger
January 23, 2010 at 2:47 am