Sean Scott's Blog

I’ll be honest about the roman baptist church, will you?

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Another really good post by brother Jim on such an important topic. (


I’ll be honest about the roman baptist church, will you?


I have been very edified by the many videos I have watched on the illbehonest YouTube site.  However, I would like to examine one extremely unbiblical and disturbing video that has been posted and supported by them.  I submit this article in a spirit of Christian grace, knowing that all true saints are in need of such grace from one another as “Love covers over a multitude of sins”.  I am truly thankful for the many edifying videos illbehonest has produced to help God’s people near and far.  That is my heart in writing this, though I will be very direct because of the seriousness of this matter.  I have sent a link to this article to the brethren at illbehonest along with posting it.  If anyone from illbehonest wants to respond to this article, you are welcome to do so anytime.

Here is the six minute video, please check it out in its entirety before reading any further.

If all that was meant by this video is that true Christians should find fellowship, without compromising on major issues, I would certainly agree with a sound amen.  If all what was being said is that it’s beneficial personally and as an expression of the church of Christ on earth for believers to meet regularly as outlined in the New Testament then I would not be writing this article.  However, this video goes far beyond this in threatening the many true saints of God who have fled local churches for truly Biblical reasons.

I would like to address three great errors in this video.  The first and most serious error is the roman catholic implication that there is no salvation apart from being a member of a local church.  The second error is the underlying theme that the typical local church (senior pastor, building, Sunday service) can even be considered New Testament fellowship.  The third error is in threatening God’s judgment on the true saints who have fled from an apostate or roman catholic modeled “bible believing” church.  In addressing these errors I would also like to expose the blatant roman catholic spirit behind this video and warn those who promote this video to be very careful of falsely condemning true saints who are currently out of fellowship, especially if they themselves are not in true New Testament fellowship either.

This video not only falsely condemns true saints of God but it also characterizes them as misguided or sinful.  This is the same tactic that the roman catholic church used on the reformers.  Giving the sheeple the impression that those who have fled their religious institutions are in danger of hell (and not worth listening to) inoculates them from the prophetic voice that often comes out of the wilderness.   This is a great way to control religious people as Rome has been using it for centuries.  Such actions truly are what call for the judgment of God.   In direct contrast to the unbiblical lies taught in this video, the cry of God to His saints is to come out from among the apostate churches.  Even of the roman catholic modeled “bible believing” churches He says I hate their nicolatian practices and affirms His saints who do likewise.

I would call on the brethren at illbehonest to take a good long look at the message of this video, at the clear word of God as presented in this response, and to spend some time in the prayer closet considering their endorsement of this travesty that they have not only published but also repeatedly defended.  I have arranged my reply with comments in the same order as they appear in the video, and I have strived to quote to the letter exactly what was spoken (in bold font), though that should not be an issue since you can re-watch the video if you want to hear it again first hand.

The Church always takes shape in the local body of believers who are in union and fellowship with one another

I will answer this false statement from a comment already posted by another brother on the YouTube video.  I will also add that sitting in a pew to listen to one man teach does NOT constitute being in union and fellowship – even with a monthly potluck thrown in the mix.

While there is great importance in the local church, this video starts out with a false presumption of the definition of church, that being that the “church” in Scripture is only the gathering of believers together in a local assembly. The “church” may include that, but it is first of all those who have been born again. It consists not of brick and mortar, but of living stones, every individual believer 1 Corinthians 15:9, “For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.” Paul didn’t persecute the local gatherings per se, but he certainly did persecute individual believers, such as Steven, who are the church. The church is literally the PEOPLE of God. Each one. Most of the local churches in America are apostate (or borderline apostate). Many true believers belong to none of them, yet these believers are still the church.

There is no such things as a lone ranger, I call it being a lone ranger, me being saved out here apart from my fellowship and my participation in the local body

This gets right to the heart of the matter.  I call this the spirit of the roman baptist church.  I will extend great grace here and assume the speaker does not really mean what he just implied, that is, there is no salvation apart from being a member of a local church.  If anyone really teaches and believes this I would treat them as I would a roman catholic, as being an apostate who is outside of Christ’s true Church and is himself in need of salvation.  Speaking of lone rangers, it is ironic that even in “bible believing” churches the senior pastor fills a man made position that makes him a lone ranger.  Ephesians 4:11-15

I can’t know that I’m a real Christian unless I’m in the local church, you can’t know, you can’t have any assurance that you are a real Christian by reading books and by listening to sermons and being out here isolated and say “well its wonderful oh we love God” (said in a semi sarcastic tone)

I will continue to extend great grace up to this point and assume the speaker does not really believe what he is saying.  Our assurance that we are truly Christians comes from the Holy Spirit within us, and is evidenced by Holy fruit in our lives.  The apostle Paul spent years in the wilderness, the Ethiopian eunuch was sent on his way alone after being baptized.  They may only be a couple of examples but they are undeniable none the less.  In the day that we live in I know many true brethren that love God and are very thankful to have escaped from apostate or nicolatian churches.  In fact, most of the genuine brethren that I know have spent much time outside of an established local church (though I have never heard of a true believer that didn’t long for fellowship with other brethren).   The Lord used messages heard over the internet and books from Godly men of the past to help mold many of these saints.  I am less worried about such saints, even if they are currently in the wilderness for a long season, then I am for the speaker in this video and illbehonest for posting it.  Romans 5:1-2

If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ, God’s son, cleanses us from all sin

This verse is actually saying the exact opposite of what this video would have us believe.  God’s plain word says that if we walk in the light (follow after Christ’s effectual calling on our life) THEN we have fellowship with one another through the head of the Church – Christ Jesus Himself.  It does NOT say that if we attend protestant mass (Sunday service) every week and call it fellowship then we are walking in the light.   Ironically the majority of those who sit in local fellowships are not walking in the light.  They are neither connected to Christ the head, or to His body.  They are very well connected to other unconverted pew warmers through religious structure though.

How can we say we love God and not be in union and in fellowship and in love with brothers and sisters in Christ in a local body

I think I can say biblically that if someone is truly saved they will love to fellowship with other true brethren.  As I’ve already stated though, the sad fact is that 90% of the established local (institutional) churches are apostate and of the 10% remaining most are modeled after roman catholicism and are run by a nicolatian spirit.  Even at “bible believing” churches the “fellowship” is mostly compromised of sitting in a pew and staring at the back of somebody else’s head for an hour or two while listening to the one fold ministry lecture week after week.  Even meeting with another brother once a week for Bible study over coffee (or over the internet even) is closer to true fellowship then what the typical local church offers.  Though these examples fall well short of having a true New Testament local church I believe it is probably better to have small pieces in place and built on the right foundation of true fellowship, then to have a confused religious system that needs to be torn down or completely rebuilt from the foundation.

To quote something a good brother of mine recently wrote on this very subject:

This whole discussion comes down to defining what’s biblical fellowship and how the saints should meet. For many who have left institutional, denominational churches people will say to them “you have no fellowship”. The reality is, they (the institutional church members) most often do not have fellowship either. They are just deluded or ignorant of the fact that coming together for 1.5hrs on Sunday morning to sing a few songs, take up an offering, listen to a few announcements, and hear a man preach for 30 minutes..does not constitute fellowship. Many churches actually call this time their “service” or “program” and that is exactly what it is. It’s certainly not fellowship. While it is of utmost importance, and should be every believers heart desire to fellowship with other saints, we should not confuse going to a service as biblical fellowship.

This is God’s will for all of His children that they be in a local church submitting themselves to a pastor, submitting themselves for accountability, to be where you can be admonished, and exhorted and to hear the teaching of the word of God WEVE GOT TO HAVE THAT TO BE SAVED and if we forsake that

OK, I can no longer extend any grace here, this is absolute roman catholic heresy straight from the pits of hell.  It is no wonder that true saints are running for their lives from such “bible believing” churches.  I would hope that illbehonest would pull this ridiculous video from their site based on this one comment alone.  Galatians 1:6-10

there’s no way in the world you sit alone by yourself and take the Lords supper

There’s also no way in the world you can call passing a plate of wafers around while staring at the back of someone’s head at Sunday service the Lords supper.  On the other hand, you can sit at home with your wife, or in your weekly Bible study with another brother and truly enjoy a meal along with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine together.

It’s a supper and it’s for the family

When my family eats supper we usually do not line up in pews and have someone stand up on the table to read a dinner time message to us while we eat a wafer with a shot of grape juice.

There’s no way in the world you can baptize yourself

I baptized my wife and hope in the Lord to baptize my children.  They do not have to run down to the local institutional “church” and be baptized by a hireling pastor.

I’ll say again there are a lot of misguided, misdirected, souls that don’t want to have any part to do with the local church they are greatly in error

I will say in return that this speaker and those who support this video are misguided and in greater error.  Further, if they themselves do not have true New Testament fellowship (as opposed to attending the typical Sunday service week after week) they are acting as hypocritical Pharisees and are in great danger of the judgment of God.  This is exactly what the Pharisees did, they judged falsely based on their carnal traditions.   Luke12:1 Matthew 7:3-5 Matthew 16:6

I would not go so far to say that all of them are completely lost but I’m saying this, they are going to be very stunted and have an accounting

True believers in institutional churches are the ones severely stunted by their roman catholic church structure founded on a one fold ministry.  The very fact that these saints can read the word of God and not discern that their fellowship looks nothing like what they just read proves this well.  I would also like to point out that besides the few true saints out in the pews the vast majority of people in the local churches are completely lost.  That goes double for those in the Bible belt.   Ephesians 4:11-15 2 Corinthians 6:14-18

If they’re not willing to be accountable here they’re going to have to give an account to “him” one day and I sure wouldn’t want to be standing before the Lord Jesus Christ when he says why on earth you wouldn’t be a part of my church

There are many true saints that are not involved in the local church because of the reasons I have mentioned. Sometimes all they have is fellowship over the internet, or even just listening to messages.  Sadly that is all some have for now though they long for more!  While over the internet may not be very close true to New Testament fellowship neither is the Sunday service. Again, the Lord does not condemn His people for fleeing those churches as this video falsely does, however, He does hate the practice of the nicolatians and warns His people to come out from apostate churches.  Revelation 2:6 Revelation 2:15-16 Revelation 18:4-5

I have a friend who one time wrote a tract go to church or go to hell – it was very enlightening little bit of literature

OK, you’ve scared me into submission.  I will be at protestant mass on Sunday with my check book in hand so you can read the Holy Scriptures to me, the common and ignorant laity, and accept my tithes while offering prayers to God for me that I might be saved.  This again may be harsh but it reflects the heart of this video and of the roman baptist church.  I am not just picking on baptists here either; most protestant churches seem to be maturing into the harlot daughters of rome.  In this day and age it is often better to be sitting outside of fellowship then to be compromised with apostasy or to be conquered over by the nicolatian leadership of the “bible believing” churches  (of course to start building true new testament fellowship with the brethren is better yet).  Matthew 23:13

why would the Lord have you in a place where there would not be a church

Why would the Lord allow His sheep to sit in a roman baptist institution week after week and call it “church”?  That is a rhetorical question.  While we are exhorted not to forsake gathering together (in no way does gathering together equal Sunday service which is usually no true gathering at all) we are also exhorted to “come out from among them” and to “flee from Babylon”.  I am in no way saying that all professing believers who attend local / institutional churches are in Babylon or are lost.  I would only exhort those true believers to seek God earnestly over the empty traditions that were handed down to them and that they have followed.  Roman catholic traditions keep God’s children in bondage and do not lead to a mature body under the headship of Christ.  I know there are even true elders / pastors that stay in that system and try to genuinely glorify God in it.  I am thankful for them and love them in Christ, as many have been used to bless and teach me much in the past.  I am not pronouncing condemnation on them in any way, just on those who love and support the practice of the nicolatians.  These practices are the very reason many true saints are out of the local church in the west.

I will part with another comment left by a sister on this YouTube video.  These words may very well testify against the apostate and nicolatian “bible believing” churches on the Day of Judgment.

I don’t attend the institutional church, I tried, but I refuse to sit in a church week after week where false teaching abounds. I submit to my husband, my husband submits to Christ. If I made a pastor my covering, I would be dishonoring my head (my husband). If my husband were to make his covering a pastor, then he is dishonoring Christ.  I live in a community of Sunday Christians, Monday sinners. I live in the part of the South that Paul Washer preaches about. I’m better off worshipping at home

Written by Sean Scott

October 26, 2010 at 3:26 am

Posted in Uncategorized

5 Responses

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  1. Really good article. Thanks for posting. One highlight:

    “Ironically the majority of those who sit in local fellowships are not walking in the light. They are neither connected to Christ the head, or to His body. They are very well connected to other unconverted pew warmers through religious structure though.”

    Very true.

    As I read this, I began to wonder if the whole lead pastor thing can be broken down by this one word, a word they love to throw around: submission. The point is this: to whom does the head pastor submit? We all know he’s supposed to submit to someone. What I’ve found is that this is where things get suspiciously weird in the modern churches. The head pastor either has some random group of outside people who supposedly counsel him and hold him accountable; he claims that the other staff (over whom he usually holds power) provide counsel and accountability; or there’s a claim that the entire congregation fulfills this by virtue of their ability to remove the pastor, albeit often through some convoluted voting process. Regardless, in all of these examples, do we really see pastors following Ephesians 5:21: “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ”? I suppose it could be happening out there somewhere, but I’ve never seen it. I’d like to hear head pastors explain how they obey this verse with specific reference to a layperson.


    October 26, 2010 at 5:57 pm

  2. Now that is the kind of talk that gets me in trouble! And I still haven’t learned a bit by it.

    Robert Begnaud

    November 17, 2010 at 5:31 am

  3. Reblogged this on spiritualabusesanctuary and commented:
    How far has the ecclesia fallen away from true scriptural teaching, into grave error and apostasy? All you have to do is drive around your own town and see the array of Nicolaitan “churches” being displayed, as well as the non-existent “fellowship” between the “brethren” right around the corner, where the parishioners never darken the doorstep of one another’s “church”.


    November 29, 2013 at 5:26 am

  4. “The church system of ‘jesus franchises’ is not a broken system, it is another system, or rather another’s.”

    Jesus, in the Revelation of Jesus Christ to saint John, and not The Revelations as the “franchises” teach, is exactly WHERE when He knocks on the door? So I guess the Corner Stone/Head Stone is not in true fellowship? NO! He is not in FALSE fellowship! He is on the outside knocking and bidding what exactly?
    Oh, and the saints the world were not worthy of? Where were they? Also not in false fellowship.

    Jim estimates 90% of the ‘jesus franchises” are apostate, I think he is either being generous or estimating low, as I put the number at 99+%.

    The Revelation chapter 18 also clearly teaches the saints to come out of her my people, for her sins have reached to heaven, lest you too be caught in her destruction! Well it can’t mean the world, for Paul clearly taught we could not do that. Is it the Gaither Tour?!?! NO! It is the Harlot church system, and the mother of harlots. Who then are her daughters? Well, we have about 55,000 divisions of Jesus, known as denominations that came out of her and grew up to be just like her.

    501(c)(3) endorsement by the beast system of government and state sponsored marry and bury licenses seal the deal for a Harlot Woman riding the beast. Now, WHO is the prince of this world, and where was he cast, along with his reprobate brothers? Here on earth. The earth is not Jesus’ throne, rather, having defeated the prince of this world, it is His foot stool…Think of these 2 paraphrased scriptures in relation to everything you see here on this earth. #1. God’s will is that in EVERYTHING Christ Jesus would have the pre-eminence. #2. The whole world is under the sway of the evil one. Thus everything and everybody not wholly and holy sold out to Jesus as Lord, and His pre-eminence is to some degree or another under the sway of the evil one.

    Further, any system, such as the harlot jesus franchises, where their jesus is a mascot, like Chucky Cheese and the focus is on the creature and not the Creator, and the creature’s focus is their entertainment, and you can see that it is NOT “Your will be done here on earth just exactly as it is done in heaven!” Thus the focus is exactly the same as the folks at a Chucky Cheese franchise, it is not about Chucky Cheese, it is all about their being entertained and being fed. They just put Chucky up on the front of the building so you can find it.

    Do you not remember the scripture, “…the stone the BUILDERS rejected…?” Jesus is the rejected Corner Stone, but who are the BUILDERS? You need only look back to the first builder Cain to see who their father is. Think also of Simon Peter who, at the transfiguration, being in the flesh, made 2 very telling statements.
    #1. “It is GOOD FOR US to be here. #2. LET US BUILD a series of shelters for you, who need no building to shelter them for they were Spirit. In the flesh, like Cain, men build buildings, but in the Spirit Christ Jesus builds men!

    Yes, I am a person who once graced those jesus franchises. My Sunday School classes were two times bigger than 80% of the jesus franchises operating today. My spouse travelled for a major jesus franchise university in their music choral. Hint the “head” of the university took over Jimmy Bakker’s Christian theme park when it was going under. One of her contemporaries was the jokster/singer who got famous with the Gaither’s. We count as friends in our past folks who’s names you would know from the luminaries of the jesus franchises. I have counseled many preachers on their personal and corporate financial matters. Scripture tells us that money is the least of these things, yet how you handle the least of things tells you how a man will handle the greater things. Further, who will trust a man with the greater things when he does not handle the lesser things well. I have yet to see the man of the pulpit, let alone his hand picked elder board who could ever handle the church treasury well. Again I point you to the men build buildings statement I wrote above. Oh, and a “move of God” is NOT a lower interest rate from the “money changers” at the local bank!

    Yet, we counted all our religious past as DUNG! We did just exactly as Paul did when Jesus opened our eyes. But first we were lead to the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, where we found that Jesus is enough, and that His Word is true! “You need not that any man should teach you, but the Holy Spirit will lead you into all Truth through the Word in context.”

    An “elder” is no more than a third grader in a second grade classroom. IF he learned the lesson correctly, he can FUNCTION as an guide to the second grade student in understanding what the Teacher is teaching the second grader. Yet if he learned it wrong, he is a blind guide who will lead the second grader astray. If the second grader sees the teaching accurately, he can function as the guide/elder to the third grader in correcting his error. But in no case are they EVER the Teacher. Can you see this application in the true Ekklesia, verses the false system of men who name their buildings as churches? By the way, the word church as used by them to their advantage and Nike control over the laity is also found in the Old Covenant and Testament in describing the Jews. Yet even there we see the true fellowship by faith in the coming Messiah and the false temple builders who rejected Him. Thus the temple builders of today are no different then their fathers, the temple builders of the past. Jesus clearly taught who their fathers were.

    So, we have come full circle. This is not a broken system, but rather another’s system. So, come out of her My people, for her sins have reached to heaven, lest you be caught in her destruction…” It is ALWAYS the religious who persecute the saints, thinking they are doing God a favor… And in the end, the broad road crowd will hear depart from Me…Theirs will be the weeping and gnashing of teeth!

    Mickey Merrie

    November 29, 2013 at 4:05 pm

  5. Another line that I often hear is that a Christian is not a rugged individualist. Better to be a rugged individualist than a zombie.

    Jason Crupper

    October 16, 2015 at 4:37 am

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